Pro-Life: Conservative or Liberal

Our friend Ally has a reflection on the how the liberals are “shocked, shocked I tell you, to discover” that Alito is pro-life.

She is absolutely right - this shoudl surprise nobody.

However, before the liberals get their collective panties in a bunch, they ought to look at Alito’ record. Unlike O’Connor, Alito rules based on a principled view of the Constitution - thus his dissent on Casey did not revolve around an attempt to impose his own personal beliefs but his attempt to meet O’Connor’s undue burden test.

Anyhow, lest you think that I am actually agreeing with Ally (’ware the flying pigs indeed!), the purpose of this post is to ruminate on whether the liberals and conservatives are being hypocritical with their abortion stances.

A conservative is typically suspicious of government power. They generally want to limit the federal government to the powers enumerated in the Constitution.

A liberal generally supports the use of government power to help the less fortunate and powerless.

Pro-life folks want the government to regulate one of the most important personal decisions you can make. While they wave the states’ rights banner in order to overturn Roe v. Wade, don’t doubt for a minute that, if they ever achieve the pipe dream of overturning Roe, that they won’t turn around and demand a national ban that will override the pro-choice legisislatures of blue states.

Pro-choice folks say that the government ought not to intervene in our personal lives. Pro-choice people express concern for the powerless, but I can’t think of anything more powerless than a fetus post-Roe.

The flip-flops of the “conservatives” and “liberals” can be explained by the fact that the terms no longer have identify political viewpoints as much as they identify membership in the superfactions that Madison so feared in Federalist #10. The “conservative” superfaction is all for individual responsibility and economic freedom, but also reached a mutually-rewarding deal with the religious right in which the religious folks support tax cuts and an interventionist foreign policy in return for government meddling in our sex/reproductive/marriage lives.

Liberals, who generally support the use of federal power to protect/create/advance the rights of the least fortunate among us, but have spun 180 degrees to keep the feminists within their superfaction.

I just wish both sides would ealize that it is a dead issue. Roe is so established by Stare Decisis that it is unlikely to ever be overturned. And the pragamtists who actually hold power in the Republican party don’t even want to overturn Roe: Witness Bush’s appointment of Justices who support Stare Decisis. Neither Roberts or Alito will challenge Roe.

And liberals should stop getting so worked up over the issue.

Attention pro-lifers: The Republicans are using the issue as a tool to distract you from real issues (much like flag burning and gay marriage).

Attention pro-choicers: There is no real threat. The Democratic interest groups want to scare you to drum up donations and support.

Attention both sides: There can be no meaningful debate. Either you believe that the soul exists at conception or you don’t. And that belief is not amenable to persuasion because it is faith-based rather than empirical.

So:

Can’t we just find a way to concentrate on real issues facing the country?

8 Comments
Ally said:

Well put, however….if we were talking about gun control or environmental issues, you’d have a point. We are talking about a fundamental issue that goes beyond “pro-life” and “pro-choice,” and I admit, the titles are misleading. Some people believe abortion is murder. If it is, then the federal government would have some play. If it isn’t, and just a matter of personal choice, then I agree, we are blurring the lines less government/more government.



Ally,

As a T.R. Progressive who wants to see government involvement when it can be effective in improving lives or stopping socially negative behavior, I believe that the federal government has a role in preventing murder.

But it generally doesn’t work that way - murder is almost always covered by state law. Bush’s creation of federal drug-related killing laws is a massive expansion of federal power.

It also isn’t conservative. Remember, the traditional meaning of conservative is someone who wants to limit the power of the federal government. Getting the government involved in what has been traditionally a state sphere isn’t conservative at all.

Having the national government expand its power to protect the powerless fetus is eminently a liberal position. Or would be, if the labels we use made any sense.



Brian B said:

Attention both sides: There can be no meaningful debate. Either you believe that the soul exists at conception or you don’t. And that belief is not amenable to persuasion because it is faith-based rather than empirical.

Non Sequitur. The issue is whether a human begins at conception, whether you believe any human has a soul or not. And THAT is a question that CAN be determined empirically.



Brian B said:

As for the traditional vs. modern definitions of “Liberal” and “Conservative”, Smallholder is right. However, to a certain extent he is also being irrelevant. Most modern users of the terms understand their modern definitions, and even among those who DON’T, few if any are actually thinking of the traditional definitions and being deceived into thinking that’s what is meant these days.

In the end, the best course of action to take is to weigh each issue in light of one’s own convictions and priorities, and make decisions accordingly.

In doing so, it is also important to weigh what governmental principals you hold to as ultimate ends, and which are simply waypoints, that is, ends that are in themselves means to higher ends. For instance, I am usually for a smaller Federal government (a tradtionally conservative position) only because I believe it is the best means to achieve even more important and basic liberties. But I also believe in making exceptions to those limits when they interfere with the very ends they seek to accomplish.



Weighing each issue and then deciding the best means of promoting the general weal?

Brian, we’ll make a T.R. Progressive of you yet!

On the non-sequitor issue:
I rarely hear people making the “when life begins” argument, and when I do, the speaker’s opinion is almost always reflective of their idea of the soul. I wonder if some people are making the “life” argument in the same way that creationists make the “ID/IOT” argument.

I’m not sure how one can empirically define life to everyone’s satisfaction. As the Big Hominid recently opined, the advance of cloning technology may make EVERY human cell potential life (Cue the Monty Python singers: “Every cell is sacred…”)



Brian B said:

Mark, I’m already a closer to a T.R. Progressive than you think, at least on some issues (some of which I don’t think you’ve ever even broached here). It’s just that on YOUR hotbutton topics, I happen to agree with the modern “Conservatives” most of the time.

As for the When Life Begins argument, *I’M* making the argument. I can’t speak for anyone else. And my basis for doing so is as much a matter of genetic science as it is belief in a soul. Quite frankly, from a scientific POV, the “At Birth” argument is the shakiest.



Brian -

I enjoy that we agree almost across the board and then can vigorously agree about a few hot buton topics - even if it happens that some of disagreement turns out to be semantic rather than substantial. :)
You are right about the “at brith” argument; viability is achieved much prior to birth and the window of viability keeps shifting backwards. I tend to think (shocker!) in shades of gray and don’t see a bright dividing line. IF one had to draw a line, your decision to draw it at conception is a good place to do it. As for me, I actually live up to the Maximum Leader’s “squishy” label on this issue. I just don’t know. As to the soul, I’m reasonably confident that the soul doesn’t enter until later. But I’m not confident about that either.



Brian B said:

Well said. I believe the sould is formed at conception, but again, I’m not sure the existence of the soul is a good foundation for a legal opinion on abortion. On the other hand, if we accept that our law in this country is founded, in part at least, on the idea that “Man is endowed by his creator by certain inalienable rights”, we realize that at some point, ANY law is based on some set of moral values.



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